[ that he'll easily admit to. and scary, and awkward, and he had no idea what to do with himself - if kitty hadn't known him so well, hadn't known how to push his buttons, and if it weren't so thrilling to do something different for the first time, something he never dared to let himself really imagine - he's not sure how fun it would have been. ]
The first time always is. I mean, you've worked out how your own body works, mostly, but when it's another guy - suddenly you can't figure out where anything goes, right?
[ throwing away the shards of glass and doing - something, I don't know - with the rag, he gets himself another glass, sits, pours, drinks, and puts down so it couldn't break again. ]
Yeah, pretty much. I miss the internet.
[ they could have researched it, made it so much better for both of them. though he is a little scared that if he made it any better kitty might actually not want to go back, she told him she saw music that's some intense enjoyment right there. ]
I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to look you in the face after this.
[ so no. no he couldn't have. he couldn't have initiated this, not in a million years. that blush on his face that just isn't going away anymore is proof of that. ]
It's a limited time offer, so. [ god he hopes it is. he shrugs a little. he doubts they'll have a chance to get really good at it, but kitty really enjoyed herself and that alone is incentive enough for a round two.
and that worsening of his blush, that, for once, isn't on jim. it's the memory of kitty offering they bring toys into their lives once she's back to normal because he enjoyed himself too. ]
Why the hell not? It's just sex, Winn, and there's no shame in getting your cherry popped.
[ He shook his head, wondering at the silliness of it, though he could understand. Sort of. He had been shy about this sort of thing in his early days. Now he didn't really much care. ]
Doesn't that mean you should indulge in it as much as you can?
[ but in his, it's another reason to get his ass kicked. he spent so long living with a target on his back that he can't stop being afraid of doing something to repaint it. yeah, people on the fleet seem open minded, but they also all seemed nice and little by little he's found that it's really not all so black-and-white simple, they have all kinds here. ]
Jim - [ his voice is practically pleading, he can't bring himself to say it. ]
[ He cared about Winn, he did, but sometimes he felt he was not equipped to handle the seemingly deeper pile of issues he had. It made him very much want to go back in time (even though he hated time travel with a passion), and kick Winn's father in the ass along with everyone else who thoroughly screwed Winn up.
For now, though, he continues to stare at Winn and takes a long, long sip of his alcohol, the implication clear. Talk or you are not leaving this room. ]
[ if he wanted to, winn could sit here quietly for hours, just being stubborn. but kitty is waiting for him back on the windrose, and he does feel like he needs to say this out loud at least once. if anyone will acknowledge his fears and treat them respectfully, experience taught him it'd be jim.
he empties his glass and, looking down the whole time, finally speaks very softly. ]
This should've happened when I was a teenager, or in college, right? But people don't like criminals or their families, people don't like nerds, how do you think someone who's both did? I feel like I'm a teenager again, and not just in the exploration way. If I say 'she has no idea what she's doing, I have no idea what I'm doing, and I still liked it' I may as well just paint a target on my back and top it off with a 'shoot me' sign. And I think I just proved how bad I still am at self defense.
[ He is getting surprisingly good at this game. Maybe, given time, he can get Winn to crack without alcohol and just a knowing smile. Or even get the other to do it on his own in the first place. But, more immediate things to talk about and potential issues to help resolve. ]
I don't think it has to happen at either of those times. Sometimes it just happens when it happens. It happened now because you really care about Kitty, right? And it doesn't much matter if she's a girl or a guy, she's Kitty, and that's all that's important to you, am I right?
[ It was the most likely explanation, really, and he would expect no less of Winn. ]
And second of all -
[ He reached out and tapped his finger against Winn's forehead. ]
You're still stuck on this place being like your own world. You have to get out of that mindset, because it's not. No one is going to come after you for liking being with men. If that were the case, I would have been targeted a long time ago. Those people that hurt you in your world aren't here, Winn, and even if they were, none of us here would let them.
[ he nods at the first part. at first, that's what he told himself - it's just kitty. it's just because it's kitty, and he's so in love with her. maybe he's that in love with her, maybe he really just evolved that far beyond caring about her body - of course he didn't. when he really stopped to think about it, maybe the way he's always noticed how good looking other men are should have tipped him off, but he focused all his energy on envying them, not desiring them. a defense mechanism, maybe?
very slowly, his eyes move slightly upwards at that tap. he agrees and disagrees; jim doesn't look like a target. he's cool, he's good looking, he's smart, he's confident, and he knows how to take care of himself. jim's not the kind of guy people go after.
but it's true that people are different here, and he's not a scared little kid anymore. he's got friends - a lot of friends. but they can't always protect him, that's the whole reason behind their lessons. and as much as he likes to think that everyone on the fleet is good and kind unless the atroma messes with them, the truth is that's just not true.
he keeps the argument in his own head. he knows jim's advice - or at least thinks he does. you can't live your life in fear. what does that mean, though? how do you do it? ]
I feel like everybody knows, and everybody's looking at me different. [ which is mostly in his head and he knows it - but things that exist in your own head shape your reality. it's real to him. worst of all, he's scared kitty might be seeing him differently now. ]
Probably because you're looking at yourself differently. You've grown here, and that might include such things as your preferences. There's nothing wrong with that Winn and there's nothing wrong with you.
[ He leaned back, taking another sip. He placed the glass down, rolling it back and forth slowly, making the liquid climb the sides. ]
But maybe I'm not the only person you should talk to about this, if it's really causing you this much worry.
[ kitty keeps trying to get him to talk about it. but she mercifully lets him get away with a distressed sounding I don't know. she's got enough to deal with herself here, she's the one living in a body that isn't hers. he doesn't need to make it about him. he shakes his head. ]
Winn - you're not. It took me this long and alcohol just to get you to admit to what's going on in your head.
[ He sighed. ]
We both know that the opinion you care about most right now is Kitty's. She's your partner, and I'm not an expert on relationships, but I bet you both will feel better about all of this if you talk it out. And that includes telling her what you just told me.
[ okay he doesn't usually need the alcohol. now that he's reminded of it, he pours himself another glass and brings it to his lips. he's still feeling too sober for any of this. ]
[ it's curt, but he also really means it. he doesn't enjoy being difficult. he wishes he could be over his barriers, that he could speak freely. but if he could do that, he wouldn't need these talks. he hates being a bother, but it seems like he can't help but be one around jim. ]
[ He knows. He really does know, and he hopes that Winn can bring down more of those walls, but it will take time. Which is why he doesn't mind these talks and being someone Winn can come talk to. And hopes that Winn doesn't mind that he pushes him. It's only out of love, wanting him to grow. ]
Yeah, well, make it up to me by running an extra twenty minutes next lesson.
[ He gave him a teasing smile. ]
And by coming to me next time rather than having me drag you in.
[ he weakly attempts a joke. he's tried coming to jim - he came after charles, he came after sascha. but he can't guarantee he'll come next time, or the time after that. it all depends on how vulnerable the subject makes him feel, how comfortable he is with voicing it. ]
[ he nods a little. these talks are hard, they're painful, and sometimes they make him feel terrible - because they show him just how far he still has to climb to be the kind of man he wishes he were. but they're good for him. they help. ]
Thanks for not giving up on me.
[ he knows he's giving him plenty of reasons to. but it's that very reason that made him so attached to jim. he doesn't give him anything but friendship in return, jim doesn't need him to make anything for him, do anything for him, and he still cares. it means the world to him, and little by little, he's starting to believe that it can stay that way, it can hold, that hanging around him can be incentive enough to hang around him. ]
You keep thanking me for that, but you don't have to, you know. I'm not in
the habit of giving up on my friends.
[ He gave him an encouraging smile as he drained his glass, reaching
for the bottle to refill it - a half measure, this time, rather than the
full, though he was nowhere near drunk or even tipsy at this point. ]
Now, what do you need moving forward? Do you have lube? What about condoms?
This is me making sure you have what you need to have a good time and stay
safe. You've never been with a guy - until now - and it's different and
since you probably won't ask me, I decided to offer.
[ If he was Bones, Remy, or Spock he would have laughed and joked. But
Winn was his friend, in a different way from those two. He was protective
of him, very much in the sense of a little brother, so these things came
out. ]
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momijizukamori and
no subject
Date: 2016-09-28 07:50 pm (UTC)[ He reached out and patted his back, straightening to resume his seat on the other side of the table. ]
It's weird isn't it? The first time with a guy. I thought it was weird my first time. Fun, but weird.
no subject
Date: 2016-09-28 07:53 pm (UTC)[ that he'll easily admit to. and scary, and awkward, and he had no idea what to do with himself - if kitty hadn't known him so well, hadn't known how to push his buttons, and if it weren't so thrilling to do something different for the first time, something he never dared to let himself really imagine - he's not sure how fun it would have been. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-09-29 04:42 am (UTC)[ He gave him a sympathetic smile. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-09-29 04:45 am (UTC)Yeah, pretty much. I miss the internet.
[ they could have researched it, made it so much better for both of them. though he is a little scared that if he made it any better kitty might actually not want to go back, she told him she saw music that's some intense enjoyment right there. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-09-29 05:03 am (UTC)[ Which is to say he had many, many preferences, but still - it was not a secret that he went for men, women, and anything in between and beyond.
He took a sip. ]
Are you interested in doing it again?
no subject
Date: 2016-09-29 05:11 am (UTC)[ so no. no he couldn't have. he couldn't have initiated this, not in a million years. that blush on his face that just isn't going away anymore is proof of that. ]
It's a limited time offer, so. [ god he hopes it is. he shrugs a little. he doubts they'll have a chance to get really good at it, but kitty really enjoyed herself and that alone is incentive enough for a round two.
and that worsening of his blush, that, for once, isn't on jim. it's the memory of kitty offering they bring toys into their lives once she's back to normal because he enjoyed himself too. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-09-30 05:19 am (UTC)[ He shook his head, wondering at the silliness of it, though he could understand. Sort of. He had been shy about this sort of thing in his early days. Now he didn't really much care. ]
Doesn't that mean you should indulge in it as much as you can?
[ You know what he's really asking here, Winn. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-09-30 05:25 am (UTC)[ but in his, it's another reason to get his ass kicked. he spent so long living with a target on his back that he can't stop being afraid of doing something to repaint it. yeah, people on the fleet seem open minded, but they also all seemed nice and little by little he's found that it's really not all so black-and-white simple, they have all kinds here. ]
Jim - [ his voice is practically pleading, he can't bring himself to say it. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 04:21 am (UTC)For now, though, he continues to stare at Winn and takes a long, long sip of his alcohol, the implication clear. Talk or you are not leaving this room. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 04:34 am (UTC)he empties his glass and, looking down the whole time, finally speaks very softly. ]
This should've happened when I was a teenager, or in college, right? But people don't like criminals or their families, people don't like nerds, how do you think someone who's both did? I feel like I'm a teenager again, and not just in the exploration way. If I say 'she has no idea what she's doing, I have no idea what I'm doing, and I still liked it' I may as well just paint a target on my back and top it off with a 'shoot me' sign. And I think I just proved how bad I still am at self defense.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:04 am (UTC)I don't think it has to happen at either of those times. Sometimes it just happens when it happens. It happened now because you really care about Kitty, right? And it doesn't much matter if she's a girl or a guy, she's Kitty, and that's all that's important to you, am I right?
[ It was the most likely explanation, really, and he would expect no less of Winn. ]
And second of all -
[ He reached out and tapped his finger against Winn's forehead. ]
You're still stuck on this place being like your own world. You have to get out of that mindset, because it's not. No one is going to come after you for liking being with men. If that were the case, I would have been targeted a long time ago. Those people that hurt you in your world aren't here, Winn, and even if they were, none of us here would let them.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:16 am (UTC)very slowly, his eyes move slightly upwards at that tap. he agrees and disagrees; jim doesn't look like a target. he's cool, he's good looking, he's smart, he's confident, and he knows how to take care of himself. jim's not the kind of guy people go after.
but it's true that people are different here, and he's not a scared little kid anymore. he's got friends - a lot of friends. but they can't always protect him, that's the whole reason behind their lessons. and as much as he likes to think that everyone on the fleet is good and kind unless the atroma messes with them, the truth is that's just not true.
he keeps the argument in his own head. he knows jim's advice - or at least thinks he does. you can't live your life in fear. what does that mean, though? how do you do it? ]
I feel like everybody knows, and everybody's looking at me different. [ which is mostly in his head and he knows it - but things that exist in your own head shape your reality. it's real to him. worst of all, he's scared kitty might be seeing him differently now. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:33 am (UTC)[ He leaned back, taking another sip. He placed the glass down, rolling it back and forth slowly, making the liquid climb the sides. ]
But maybe I'm not the only person you should talk to about this, if it's really causing you this much worry.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:36 am (UTC)What doesn't cause me worry, I'm fine.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:48 am (UTC)[ He sighed. ]
We both know that the opinion you care about most right now is Kitty's. She's your partner, and I'm not an expert on relationships, but I bet you both will feel better about all of this if you talk it out. And that includes telling her what you just told me.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:51 am (UTC)[ okay he doesn't usually need the alcohol. now that he's reminded of it, he pours himself another glass and brings it to his lips. he's still feeling too sober for any of this. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 05:57 am (UTC)[ it's curt, but he also really means it. he doesn't enjoy being difficult. he wishes he could be over his barriers, that he could speak freely. but if he could do that, he wouldn't need these talks. he hates being a bother, but it seems like he can't help but be one around jim. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 06:19 am (UTC)Yeah, well, make it up to me by running an extra twenty minutes next lesson.
[ He gave him a teasing smile. ]
And by coming to me next time rather than having me drag you in.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 06:23 am (UTC)[ he weakly attempts a joke. he's tried coming to jim - he came after charles, he came after sascha. but he can't guarantee he'll come next time, or the time after that. it all depends on how vulnerable the subject makes him feel, how comfortable he is with voicing it. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 06:28 am (UTC)This time.
[ He was quiet a moment, watching him. ]
I know this is hard for you. But I'm glad you talked to me.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-03 06:34 am (UTC)Thanks for not giving up on me.
[ he knows he's giving him plenty of reasons to. but it's that very reason that made him so attached to jim. he doesn't give him anything but friendship in return, jim doesn't need him to make anything for him, do anything for him, and he still cares. it means the world to him, and little by little, he's starting to believe that it can stay that way, it can hold, that hanging around him can be incentive enough to hang around him. ]
no subject
Date: 2016-10-06 04:13 am (UTC)You keep thanking me for that, but you don't have to, you know. I'm not in the habit of giving up on my friends.
[ He gave him an encouraging smile as he drained his glass, reaching for the bottle to refill it - a half measure, this time, rather than the full, though he was nowhere near drunk or even tipsy at this point. ]
Now, what do you need moving forward? Do you have lube? What about condoms?
no subject
Date: 2016-10-06 06:31 pm (UTC)[ he shrugs and half-gags half-snorts.
he's not sure if he wants to ask questions, sass, or road runnerer out of here. the struggle is the realest. ]
Is this a future thing or a you thing?
no subject
Date: 2016-10-06 06:46 pm (UTC)This is me making sure you have what you need to have a good time and stay safe. You've never been with a guy - until now - and it's different and since you probably won't ask me, I decided to offer.
[ If he was Bones, Remy, or Spock he would have laughed and joked. But Winn was his friend, in a different way from those two. He was protective of him, very much in the sense of a little brother, so these things came out. ]
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