Winn you're not a fool - tell me what happens to a human body when it goes
without appropriate amounts of sleep? For one your experiments are going to
suffer. For the other it runs a higher risks of more dangerous mistakes.
Really? Cuz last I checked, I work with smart, capable partners, I let you see my work, and I'm taking every precaution I can think of. So what exactly are you asking me to do here that I'm not already doing?
I know that. But there's more than just the sleep deprivation. It's the
obsessiveness - that you admitted to, mind. I don't want you to end up
crushing yourself because you have this idea that you aren't worth anything
if you aren't.
he's a good friend. he's a good boyfriend. he knows this, logically. how many times did he make kara smile since he got here, times she wouldn't have had if he weren't here? he's not keeping count, but it's a fair amount. he makes kitty laugh. sascha likes him so much he can barely peel the guy off of him. cisco trusted him with his deepest fears. margaery trusts him with the truth - he thinks. but it never feels like enough because he has so much to make up for. all the ugly, bitter, angry parts of himself, all the parts tinted by the shadow of insanity that's always hanging over his head, he could never atone for them.
he swallows on the lump forming in his throat.
his dad was obsessed too. he was so obsessed with his work, he was willing to kill for it. willing to break up their family. to leave him. there's nothing in the multiverse winn wants to avoid more than turning into his dad.
he's so tired. so tired of this fear always hanging over his head.
pulling himself up, he takes kirk's communicator with him. ]
I'll hook you up with that app.
[ the soul crushing sadness is almost overwhelming. ]
[ Kirk isn't sure if he's broken through or what. He knows something
has happened and he's not sure what. Just when it looks like he might open
up, he sees the doors closing again. And if they're closed here - would
they open again? Or would Winn continue down this path? He licked his lips,
standing up and reaching out to touch his wrist, try and stop him a little
bit longer. ]
Winn - I know you probably don't think I do, but I really do understand how
you feel.
[ Now it was his turn to take a breath, slowly release, his grip
momentarily tightening. ]
I watched my best friend's planet die. Watched it implode - because I
failed. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't ask myself what else I
could have done.
Trust me Winn, whatever mistakes or terrible things you think you've done -
chances are no one blames you. Spock doesn't blame me, even though I blame
myself.
So when I say you can talk to me Winn, I do mean it. I do understand, and I
want to help you. You're my friend, after all.
[ another world - lost. another one of his friends - going through hell, and trying to comfort him for his insignificant burdens. he's stopped alright - stuck in place, with jim's hand on his wrist, not sure what to do here.
he wants to comfort his friend, but he knows he's going to hate the way to do it.
because he recognizes this move. he's used it twice in the fleet so far. share, and people feel obligated to reciprocate, and dammit if it's not working.
when he speaks, his voice is weak but steady. ]
My dad is insane. As in - certifiable. Homicidal. Convicted. And I am...the personification of the before picture.
[ only he's not so sure it's the before picture anymore, not since his conversation with charles. would jim still let him stay on board if he confessed to that? should he? ]
[ That has not been what he was expecting. At all. He blinked at him
for a moment, processing that, and what it meant for his current behavior.
His grip didn't release though, but it didn't harden in anger either.
]
So? I don't judge people based on their parentage. I judge them based on
their actions and what I know of them.
You're a good man, Winn. The idea that genetics determine who we are or
what we'll become is a load of bull, and whoever put the idea in your head
deserves a slap.
[ if he were ever tempted to kiss kirk - it'd be right now, for this reaction. all his life, it's all he's ever wanted to hear, to believe. for a few precious moments there - kitty had him believing. had him believing that he's nothing like his dad, that his anger is just - normal human anger. that he doesn't have that darkness inside of him.
and then charles told him repeatedly that he's worried about what goes on in his mind, that he should get help for it, and all the fears came rushing back and settled right in as if they never left. ]
Has it been proven that mental illness is never hereditary in your time? [ he wants to believe so badly, but he's so scared of being crushed again. he can almost hear his dad's voice - mocking him. to winslow schott sr., focusing on their similarities was love. to winn - it was cruelty. ]
There are some - like Dimentia and Alzheimer's. But what you're talking
about? No. There's been no link ever found.
[ There had been some research done into circumstance and upbringing.
But it always proven inconclusive at best. It was simply one of those
things that happened, the mind still to complex to full understand. ]
And besides...
[ He moved his hand up to grip Winn's shoulder. ]
You have good people around you. Kara. Kitty. Me. A host of others. If you
ever feel like you are slipping - we'll pull you back. We won't let you
become that. My friends stopped me before I could cross that line. I could
do no less for you, and I'm sure Kara, Kitty, and the others would agree.
[ hope you don't mind his head slumping against your chest, because he could really use a hug right now.
congratulations, kirk, you broke through. ]
I met a telepath and he told me...I need to get help.
[ for your trauma and how much it's hurting you in your daily life winn, not because you're insane. see, if you got help for that you wouldn't be so quick to misinterpret things! ] What if I already am without knowing?
[ can that happen? can he go crazy and not know it? it must happen - crazy people aren't crazy to themselves - but how does he defend himself against an invisible enemy that leaves no tracks? how can his friends tell the difference, when his behavior isn't exactly normative under the best of circumstances? he works too hard. is that his personality, or the madness? he comes up with wild theories. is that his brilliant mind, or the madness? ]
[ Not at all, Winn. His arms raised up, wrapping around Winn's shoulders, one hand resting against the back of his head, as if to shield him. He did not force Winn to move, letting the other take his time to get his emotions sorted. He must have been keeping this bottled up inside him for a long time, and Kirk understood the deluge. He wasn't sure how he would react, if it all just came out. So many buried feelings, so many guilts and fears... ]
Maybe what he meant was this. You know, talking to someone. This has been eating at you for awhile, hasn't it?
[ He sighed and tipped his head in, pressing his forehead to Winn's hair. ]
You aren't insane, Winn. You're dedicated. Dedicated to your work and to the people you care about. There's nothing insane about that - even though I still wish you'd go get a solid eight hours.
[ He said the last with a soft huff of laughter. ]
[ no one's taken this sort of care of him since before...before his dad lost his mind, before he's had this fear, before his little perfect life was shattered. he's always been jealous of people who had siblings; especially of kara and alex. and now, for the first time in his life, he feels like he might be one of the lucky ones too. the way kirk worries about him, holds him protectively...it feels like what he imagined a big brother would, and it's almost too emotional to deal with.
and maybe he's right. this has been eating away at him for most of his life. from the time it became clear his father was the one behind the bomb, until the time he left for college and finally broke free of the people who knew who he was - he was reminded of it almost daily. the son of a murderer is one of the worst kinds of marks of shame you can carry around orphans. he thought he'd put it all behind him, until the man broke out of jail and just like that - he was 11 years old again.
maybe what's making him crazy isn't his father's deeds, it's the fact that he's never been able to talk about them. ]
A while, yeah. Since I was 11.
[ he huffs a choked up laugh in reply to kirk's. ]
You don't quit, do you?
[ said fondly. please never quit on him, he hasn't felt this safe and taken care of in so long. ]
[ If he was honest with himself, this was partly about him too. He
cared about Winn and wanted to help him from running into a downward
spiral. But it also about proving to himself, just a little, that he was
not useless here. That he had a purpose and a place. He was a captain back
home. He was supposed to care for his crew, his family, and the isolation
from them here was painful. Being able to do this for Winn meant something
for him too, though mostly he was glad that he had, hopefully, pulled Winn
out of what he thought could turn into a nosedive. ]
Yeah, that sounds like a long time. It's hard, when people expect you to be
something you're not - good or bad.
[ He chuckles softly again. ]
I am incredibly stubborn once I set my mind on something. How else did I
become captain in three years?
[ There were extenuating circumstances but not important right now.
And he knew he could take that part of himself to far. He had been pushing
the other earlier, trying to help when he could have damaged their
friendship. He knew his pride to often went untempered, especially in the
face of seeing someone he cared about hurting. ]
[ in winn's book, that's the best form of selfishness. it's not any different from how he slaves over trying to help every single person he meets - some with projects as simple as embroidering empowering slogans, and others with projects beyond his understanding, like magical cures and a way home - so he could feel of use. but if the end result is people got the help they needed, does it really matter that the motivation wasn't 100% pure and selfless? shouldn't they be allowed to help themselves, too?
he finally takes a step back, but if kirk wants to keep his hands on him he won't shake them off. ]
You made Captain in three years? Damn, I'm impressed.
[ he smiles, because that part is easier to form a coherent reply to than the first. it is hard, and it's painful, and it makes him uncertain of who he is, what he is, if he's that because that's his nature, or because he's trying to live up to other people's expectations of him. ]
Well, there were some... extenuating circumstances.
[ Partly through his own ability, but also from taking advantage of a situation. He had proven himself, but how he initially got himself in the chair - it was not one of his prouder moments, though he felt it was necessary. He was sure his intervention had kept them from destroying themselves, but it couldn't make up for the cruel way he had twisted Spock's loss and used it against him either.
He rubs Winn's arm, a comforting up and down slide against his bicep. ]
But we're not talking about me. We're talking about you, and how you are not your father, and never will be.
[ oh kirk, he might swoon. kirk's certainty touches that insecure part of his soul that has taken mostly hits for most of his life. as a kid, everyone expected him to turn into that same monster. as an adult, he had to be forced into sharing, because he couldn't trust that the reaction wouldn't be exactly the same, not completely.
but kara didn't blame him, james didn't blame him, alex didn't blame him, kitty didn't blame him, cisco didn't blame him, and neither does jim. it's a kindness he won't soon - or ever - forget. ]
It won't be for lack of effort on his part, though. [ winn rubs his face; he's not sure he wants to tell this part, he's only told kitty so far and even then, in the barest of details. but that...that probably means he should, doesn't it? he sucks in whatever tears may be coming before they can go any further (alongside some snot) and continues. ] A couple months ago, he broke out of jail and he...abducted me. He wanted me to kill his old boss - that's the guy he was targeting all those years ago. When I told him just that - that I'm nothing like him - he told me not to underestimate myself. [ he can still hear his voice as clearly as if it were yesterday. the scene plays over and over in his head, like the scene of some horror movie. ] I told him I'd never do it, but he threatened that if I didn't...he would blow up bombs all over a convention center just...full of kids. Hundreds of people. If it weren't for Kara...[ he shakes his head ] You've never seen her in action, Jim, all powered up. She had - it must have been 5 seconds, 10 at best, and still she managed to do it, somehow. Freeze the room, to absorb the shock of the explosions. Thanks to her, nobody died, there were just some cuts and bruises. But if it were just me...I came so close. Too close.
[ Kirk was patient as he listened to him, though for a second his hand tightened sharply on Winn's shoulder. It wasn't out of anger at Winn, though. It was anger at his father, that someone who was supposed to love him could force him into a corner like that, force him to try and make that kind of decision. He loosened his grip, but did not remove his touch from Winn's arm, gathering his thoughts. ]
That's not a fair situation to judge yourself, Winn. The decision he was forcing you to make - it is a hard one, an impossible one.
[ He took a breath. ]
If I was in that situation, if there were no other choices, no other options - I would have chosen your father's boss. There is a phrase I was taught by a friend - the needs of the many before the needs of the one. And though it is a hard choice, an impossible one, that is what I would have done. And it would not have made me a monster. I would feel guilt every day for having to do it, but there are times we have to make those impossible choices.
But they do not make us monsters.
Had you had to make that choice - you would have felt guilt, wouldn't you? To you it is a choice you cannot fathom making, isn't it? The fact you feel that, the fact that just even coming close to having to choose has hurt you so much - you are so far from being your father that not in this lifetime could you ever close that gap.
[ the way his father framed it, it's clear that killing chester dunholtz would have been the lesser evil, the right choice to make, but he's not sure he would have even had the courage to make that decision. when it came down to it, he took a desperate leap of faith. but what if it would have backfired? what if kara hadn't made it in time? all those lives he risked...they weigh on his conscience too. ]
I don't know what I would've done if I didn't have Kara. [ if it happened only a year earlier supergirl wouldn't have been there. or...would kara have come out of hiding for his sake? it wouldn't have mattered, not unless she told him before he was taken, because he wouldn't have known there was hope, that help was coming. that someone other than seriously trigger happy fbi agents was on the case. his voice is laced with emotion, choked up. he feels so guilty over what might have been that it still threatens to tear him apart, all this time later. but that might be because, again, he never allowed himself to talk about it.
he lets out a shaky breath. ]
I'm terrified he'll show up here, Jim. Prison bars mean nothing to the Atroma, they barely mean anything to him.
But you do have her, Winn. You have her, Kitty, me - all the friends you've
made here. You are not alone, Winn. And if he does show up? You're still
not alone. I will defend you against him, just like I know Kara and Kitty
will.
[ He gave Winn another squeeze, knowing that what he was saying was a
touch hypocritical, but it didn't matter so long as it helped Winn. ]
You can't linger on the things that did not happen or might have. The fact
is they didn't, Winn - and that's what matters.
[ he knows that for now, he has his friends. he also knows that those friends - could very easily taken away by the atroma. but that's not what matters right now - it might be what matters in the heat of the moment - but right now, what matters is that he doesn't just know in his heart that they'd be there for him because - that's who they are, they're heroes, they'd protect anyone. what matters to him is hearing out loud that they'd be there for him, specifically, because he's worth it, he's worth fighting for. ]
Thanks, Jim. [ he offers a small smile that's not quite all there. he's still weighed by a lot of guilt, a lot of fears, and a lot of things he hasn't talked about yet. but for the moment - he's a lot happier, too. ] You're right, I do feel better talking about it.
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action;
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Training for this?
Winn you're not a fool - tell me what happens to a human body when it goes without appropriate amounts of sleep? For one your experiments are going to suffer. For the other it runs a higher risks of more dangerous mistakes.
And then what will you do?
action;
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You have my trust! Otherwise I would have jettisoned your mini-sun a long time ago. But even you have to admit that there's reason to be concerned.
action;
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To take care of yourself!
action;
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I know that. But there's more than just the sleep deprivation. It's the obsessiveness - that you admitted to, mind. I don't want you to end up crushing yourself because you have this idea that you aren't worth anything if you aren't.
action;
and lets it out.
he's a good friend. he's a good boyfriend. he knows this, logically. how many times did he make kara smile since he got here, times she wouldn't have had if he weren't here? he's not keeping count, but it's a fair amount. he makes kitty laugh. sascha likes him so much he can barely peel the guy off of him. cisco trusted him with his deepest fears. margaery trusts him with the truth - he thinks. but it never feels like enough because he has so much to make up for. all the ugly, bitter, angry parts of himself, all the parts tinted by the shadow of insanity that's always hanging over his head, he could never atone for them.
he swallows on the lump forming in his throat.
his dad was obsessed too. he was so obsessed with his work, he was willing to kill for it. willing to break up their family. to leave him. there's nothing in the multiverse winn wants to avoid more than turning into his dad.
he's so tired. so tired of this fear always hanging over his head.
pulling himself up, he takes kirk's communicator with him. ]
I'll hook you up with that app.
[ the soul crushing sadness is almost overwhelming. ]
Re: action;
[ Kirk isn't sure if he's broken through or what. He knows something has happened and he's not sure what. Just when it looks like he might open up, he sees the doors closing again. And if they're closed here - would they open again? Or would Winn continue down this path? He licked his lips, standing up and reaching out to touch his wrist, try and stop him a little bit longer. ]
Winn - I know you probably don't think I do, but I really do understand how you feel.
[ Now it was his turn to take a breath, slowly release, his grip momentarily tightening. ]
I watched my best friend's planet die. Watched it implode - because I failed. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't ask myself what else I could have done.
Trust me Winn, whatever mistakes or terrible things you think you've done - chances are no one blames you. Spock doesn't blame me, even though I blame myself.
So when I say you can talk to me Winn, I do mean it. I do understand, and I want to help you. You're my friend, after all.
action;
he wants to comfort his friend, but he knows he's going to hate the way to do it.
because he recognizes this move. he's used it twice in the fleet so far. share, and people feel obligated to reciprocate, and dammit if it's not working.
when he speaks, his voice is weak but steady. ]
My dad is insane. As in - certifiable. Homicidal. Convicted. And I am...the personification of the before picture.
[ only he's not so sure it's the before picture anymore, not since his conversation with charles. would jim still let him stay on board if he confessed to that? should he? ]
Re: action;
[ That has not been what he was expecting. At all. He blinked at him for a moment, processing that, and what it meant for his current behavior. His grip didn't release though, but it didn't harden in anger either. ]
So? I don't judge people based on their parentage. I judge them based on their actions and what I know of them.
You're a good man, Winn. The idea that genetics determine who we are or what we'll become is a load of bull, and whoever put the idea in your head deserves a slap.
action;
and then charles told him repeatedly that he's worried about what goes on in his mind, that he should get help for it, and all the fears came rushing back and settled right in as if they never left. ]
Has it been proven that mental illness is never hereditary in your time? [ he wants to believe so badly, but he's so scared of being crushed again. he can almost hear his dad's voice - mocking him. to winslow schott sr., focusing on their similarities was love. to winn - it was cruelty. ]
Re: action;
There are some - like Dimentia and Alzheimer's. But what you're talking about? No. There's been no link ever found.
[ There had been some research done into circumstance and upbringing. But it always proven inconclusive at best. It was simply one of those things that happened, the mind still to complex to full understand. ]
And besides...
[ He moved his hand up to grip Winn's shoulder. ]
You have good people around you. Kara. Kitty. Me. A host of others. If you ever feel like you are slipping - we'll pull you back. We won't let you become that. My friends stopped me before I could cross that line. I could do no less for you, and I'm sure Kara, Kitty, and the others would agree.
action;
congratulations, kirk, you broke through. ]
I met a telepath and he told me...I need to get help.
[ for your trauma and how much it's hurting you in your daily life winn, not because you're insane. see, if you got help for that you wouldn't be so quick to misinterpret things! ] What if I already am without knowing?
[ can that happen? can he go crazy and not know it? it must happen - crazy people aren't crazy to themselves - but how does he defend himself against an invisible enemy that leaves no tracks? how can his friends tell the difference, when his behavior isn't exactly normative under the best of circumstances? he works too hard. is that his personality, or the madness? he comes up with wild theories. is that his brilliant mind, or the madness? ]
action;
Maybe what he meant was this. You know, talking to someone. This has been eating at you for awhile, hasn't it?
[ He sighed and tipped his head in, pressing his forehead to Winn's hair. ]
You aren't insane, Winn. You're dedicated. Dedicated to your work and to the people you care about. There's nothing insane about that - even though I still wish you'd go get a solid eight hours.
[ He said the last with a soft huff of laughter. ]
action;
and maybe he's right. this has been eating away at him for most of his life. from the time it became clear his father was the one behind the bomb, until the time he left for college and finally broke free of the people who knew who he was - he was reminded of it almost daily. the son of a murderer is one of the worst kinds of marks of shame you can carry around orphans. he thought he'd put it all behind him, until the man broke out of jail and just like that - he was 11 years old again.
maybe what's making him crazy isn't his father's deeds, it's the fact that he's never been able to talk about them. ]
A while, yeah. Since I was 11.
[ he huffs a choked up laugh in reply to kirk's. ]
You don't quit, do you?
[ said fondly. please never quit on him, he hasn't felt this safe and taken care of in so long. ]
Re: action;
[ If he was honest with himself, this was partly about him too. He cared about Winn and wanted to help him from running into a downward spiral. But it also about proving to himself, just a little, that he was not useless here. That he had a purpose and a place. He was a captain back home. He was supposed to care for his crew, his family, and the isolation from them here was painful. Being able to do this for Winn meant something for him too, though mostly he was glad that he had, hopefully, pulled Winn out of what he thought could turn into a nosedive. ]
Yeah, that sounds like a long time. It's hard, when people expect you to be something you're not - good or bad.
[ He chuckles softly again. ]
I am incredibly stubborn once I set my mind on something. How else did I become captain in three years?
[ There were extenuating circumstances but not important right now. And he knew he could take that part of himself to far. He had been pushing the other earlier, trying to help when he could have damaged their friendship. He knew his pride to often went untempered, especially in the face of seeing someone he cared about hurting. ]
action;
he finally takes a step back, but if kirk wants to keep his hands on him he won't shake them off. ]
You made Captain in three years? Damn, I'm impressed.
[ he smiles, because that part is easier to form a coherent reply to than the first. it is hard, and it's painful, and it makes him uncertain of who he is, what he is, if he's that because that's his nature, or because he's trying to live up to other people's expectations of him. ]
action;
[ Partly through his own ability, but also from taking advantage of a situation. He had proven himself, but how he initially got himself in the chair - it was not one of his prouder moments, though he felt it was necessary. He was sure his intervention had kept them from destroying themselves, but it couldn't make up for the cruel way he had twisted Spock's loss and used it against him either.
He rubs Winn's arm, a comforting up and down slide against his bicep. ]
But we're not talking about me. We're talking about you, and how you are not your father, and never will be.
action;
but kara didn't blame him, james didn't blame him, alex didn't blame him, kitty didn't blame him, cisco didn't blame him, and neither does jim. it's a kindness he won't soon - or ever - forget. ]
It won't be for lack of effort on his part, though. [ winn rubs his face; he's not sure he wants to tell this part, he's only told kitty so far and even then, in the barest of details. but that...that probably means he should, doesn't it? he sucks in whatever tears may be coming before they can go any further (alongside some snot) and continues. ] A couple months ago, he broke out of jail and he...abducted me. He wanted me to kill his old boss - that's the guy he was targeting all those years ago. When I told him just that - that I'm nothing like him - he told me not to underestimate myself. [ he can still hear his voice as clearly as if it were yesterday. the scene plays over and over in his head, like the scene of some horror movie. ] I told him I'd never do it, but he threatened that if I didn't...he would blow up bombs all over a convention center just...full of kids. Hundreds of people. If it weren't for Kara...[ he shakes his head ] You've never seen her in action, Jim, all powered up. She had - it must have been 5 seconds, 10 at best, and still she managed to do it, somehow. Freeze the room, to absorb the shock of the explosions. Thanks to her, nobody died, there were just some cuts and bruises. But if it were just me...I came so close. Too close.
action;
That's not a fair situation to judge yourself, Winn. The decision he was forcing you to make - it is a hard one, an impossible one.
[ He took a breath. ]
If I was in that situation, if there were no other choices, no other options - I would have chosen your father's boss. There is a phrase I was taught by a friend - the needs of the many before the needs of the one. And though it is a hard choice, an impossible one, that is what I would have done. And it would not have made me a monster. I would feel guilt every day for having to do it, but there are times we have to make those impossible choices.
But they do not make us monsters.
Had you had to make that choice - you would have felt guilt, wouldn't you? To you it is a choice you cannot fathom making, isn't it? The fact you feel that, the fact that just even coming close to having to choose has hurt you so much - you are so far from being your father that not in this lifetime could you ever close that gap.
action;
I don't know what I would've done if I didn't have Kara. [ if it happened only a year earlier supergirl wouldn't have been there. or...would kara have come out of hiding for his sake? it wouldn't have mattered, not unless she told him before he was taken, because he wouldn't have known there was hope, that help was coming. that someone other than seriously trigger happy fbi agents was on the case. his voice is laced with emotion, choked up. he feels so guilty over what might have been that it still threatens to tear him apart, all this time later. but that might be because, again, he never allowed himself to talk about it.
he lets out a shaky breath. ]
I'm terrified he'll show up here, Jim. Prison bars mean nothing to the Atroma, they barely mean anything to him.
Re: action;
But you do have her, Winn. You have her, Kitty, me - all the friends you've made here. You are not alone, Winn. And if he does show up? You're still not alone. I will defend you against him, just like I know Kara and Kitty will.
[ He gave Winn another squeeze, knowing that what he was saying was a touch hypocritical, but it didn't matter so long as it helped Winn. ]
You can't linger on the things that did not happen or might have. The fact is they didn't, Winn - and that's what matters.
action;
Thanks, Jim. [ he offers a small smile that's not quite all there. he's still weighed by a lot of guilt, a lot of fears, and a lot of things he hasn't talked about yet. but for the moment - he's a lot happier, too. ] You're right, I do feel better talking about it.
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